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Penny: [00:00:00.06] Well, welcome, everyone. I’m so glad you joined us. I am just thrilled to be on another session of Get Sellers Calling You with my great friend Beatty Carmichael. Beatty is the CEO of Master Grabber, the creator of Agent Dominator and one of the top marketing experts in the real estate field. Beatty, I’m thrilled for you to be joining me again today. And I know our callers and listeners are as well. So what do you have for us today?
Beatty: [00:00:29.43] Well, today’s call is going to be really exciting. So this is as our listeners have kind of gotten used to, this is a radical faith call. And for those who are new to these calls, we do two types of calls on get sellers calling you. One is real estate marketing and one is Christian living. And so today is more focused on Christian living is our series we call Radical Faith. So if you have interest in living as a Christian more boldly, please stay on. But if that’s not an interest of yours, feel free to turn off this episode and come back for the next marketing episode. And today, Penny, we are picking back up on the last radical faith topic. We’re doing a series called Faith Like Jesus. And last week we talked about the substance of faith. Just a real quick review, by the way. Oh, for those who are new on our radical faith teaching, there is a lot of misunderstandings of what faith is. And I like to encourage you to go back to the early stages of our radical faith episodes. And we did two episodes, two series called What is Faith and Getting Out of the Boat. Those lay the foundational understanding of faith. So you kind of get an idea and a foundation of where we’re going from.
Beatty: [00:01:57.96] We’re not re-covering those. So some of this you might get lost. Hopefully not. But let me encourage you, if you haven’t there, listen to those. Go back and listen to them because you’ll get a lot out of it. It’s really amazing. And this whole idea of plenty of walking by faith is just it’s been a passion of mine. I see the Lord do so much. And probably the thing that excites me most, I’m off my notes right now, but I’m discovering the thing that excites me most as most is faith is what taps into the supernatural. And everything we see in the supernatural where God acts because of man in some capacity, it’s because a man’s faith. And that’s why this is such an important topic for me and something that I love because why be normal? Let’s be supernatural. Right. So what we covered last time was faith is actually tangible and has substance. And the new King James version of Hebrews 11 one, it says, Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. And when you start to look at the Greek for the word substance, it’s actually a compound word called hypothesis, and it means to place under which is Hypo and Stacie’s to cause or to make something to stand.
Beatty: [00:03:19.77] And so its actual definition is it’s a it’s a substructure. It’s a foundational structure that has a firm foundation, OK? And and it gives the kind of that understanding of this is what you do before you start building a foundation. You go down to the to the ground rock, OK? And that’s what faith is, is that ground rock before you build anything on top of it. And the other thing that we talked about last time is that faith operates in the spiritual realm and there’s actual substance within the spiritual realm. We don’t understand it, but we know that this the natural realm and our physical environment is a shadow and a mirror image, almost shadow of what the spiritual heavenly realm is about. And we ran into a couple of real interesting passages last time about faith actually having a substance. We talked about a woman would touch Jesus, his garment, and that healed her or that people would take an apron or a handkerchief from Paul and take it somewhere else and it would heal people we’ve seen in modern times. I was speaking with a guy who would actually pray over a plastic spoon, give it to someone, and they would get healed.
Beatty: [00:04:36.93] And so that there’s something about the substance that actually sticks to and holds on to something in the natural. The other thing that we talked about last time is that just Hassin opens a door for evil spirits to act. Faith opens the door for God’s spirit to act. And it seems like we’re where it almost seems as if God’s spirit is. Hovering around us looking for any element of faith so that that so the Holy Spirit can then move and action to that faith. We see that action being done in a few passages we talked on last time where a woman with a flow of blood touches Jesus’s garment and he says, your faith has made you well or bar Thomas, who is a blind man, comes to Jesus and Jesus says your faith receive sight because of your faith. Or we see people in the town of Janessa it coming and touching his garments as well, and they getting healed. So we see there’s really something powerful about this faith that the Holy Spirit just seems to be hovering, looking for it so that he can act. And with that, I want to kind of take us the next step in understanding this thing about faith. So are you ready?
Penny: [00:05:56.76] Yes, I am.
Beatty: [00:05:58.32] All right, great. So the topic for today is as God or by faith. OK, OK. And so here’s the question that we really want to understand from today’s call. What we want to explore is what about Jesus and what power did Jesus to his miracles in his own power? And his position is God. Or through the Holy Spirit power, in his position as man walking in faith, what do you think?
Penny: [00:06:30.29] Hmm? Well, he was fully God while he was fully man, right? So I think it could have been a little bit of both.
Beatty: [00:06:42.78] It could have been a little bit of both. OK, so here’s why this is so important to understand. OK, if Jesus operated in his power is God, then can we as men who are not God, do what he did?
Penny: [00:07:01.01] No.
Beatty: [00:07:02.18] So then if he operated in his power is God, what he did was not a model for us because we could not duplicate it because we’re not God. Does that make sense? Yes. OK, if he operated and got in God’s power as a man in faith. Then what he did is a model for what we can do to correct. OK, and I want to kind of jump to the end on a couple wrap ups, but if you recall. Jesus rebuked his disciples for. Not calming the storm, not walking on the water, not casting out that demon and a few other things. And when he rebuked his disciples for, oh, you have little faith, it’s always because he was expecting and teaching them that they had the ability to do what he did. He could not and would not attribute them for a lack of faith if if everything he did was through his position is God and they had no ability to do it. Does that make sense?
Penny: [00:08:14.48] Yes, it does.
Beatty: [00:08:15.44] Ok, so what I like to do is take a look at what the Bible says on this. Let’s first talk about some of the miracles that Jesus did. If if I were to ask you, what types of miracles did Jesus do? What comes to mind?
Penny: [00:08:30.29] A lot of healings.
Beatty: [00:08:31.72] Ok, so healing of the sick. What else?
Penny: [00:08:33.86] Raising the dead.
Beatty: [00:08:35.21] Raising the dead. What else?
Penny: [00:08:36.95] Casting out demons.
Beatty: [00:08:38.75] Casting out demons. What else?
Penny: [00:08:41.87] Oh, gosh. Multiplying food.
Beatty: [00:08:44.99] Multiplying food. OK, anything else.
Penny: [00:08:47.48] Yeah. Making money up here.
Beatty: [00:08:49.82] Making money appear.
Penny: [00:08:50.87] Ok, well let’s see what else. Um. I mean, personally, if I can be silly for a second, OK, I think when he was having. Breakfast on the beach with the disciples that morning after they had been fishing, I totally think that he he did a miracle and made the first pot of coffee.
Beatty: [00:09:16.25] Ok, yeah, OK.
Penny: [00:09:17.90] And maybe they had never had coffee before. So this episode. I love it is.
Beatty: [00:09:22.46] But all right. So just to kind of categorize these things, the say killed. The dead raised. We also cleaned sleepers, don’t forget that, yeah, he controlled the weather.
Penny: [00:09:37.22] Yes, that’s good.
Beatty: [00:09:38.57] He violated laws of physics. He did acts of creation, that’s the multiplying of food, so let’s look at these, and I want I want to show you a very interesting perspective on something. OK, are you ready? I’m ready. All right. Do all of these in the Naib version. OK, and let’s start first with Luke for verse 40. We’re going to look at the sick hild. Look for 40, OK,
Penny: [00:10:07.90] Um, turn in there, let’s see. OK, Luke, chapter four, verse 40 says at sunset, the people brought to Jesus all who had various kinds of sickness and laying his hands on each one, he healed them.
Beatty: [00:10:29.87] Oh, so how are the people healed?
Penny: [00:10:33.04] By Jesus touching them.
Beatty: [00:10:34.64] Ok, now let’s look at a comparison passage back in the Old Testament numbers. Chapter 21. Versus six through nine nos, 21, six three nine.
Penny: [00:10:49.53] Ok, numbers twenty one six through nine says then the Lord sent venomous snakes, among them, they bit the people and many Israelites died. The people came to Moses and said, we send when we spoke against the Lord and against you pray that the Lord will take the snakes away from us. So Moses prayed for the people. Then the Lord said to Moses, Make a snake and put it on a pole. Anyone who was bitten can look at it and live. So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked upon the bronze snake, they lived.
Beatty: [00:11:30.21] Oh, so were people healed? Yes, and how were they healed?
Penny: [00:11:37.82] By looking at a map of an idol, basically
Beatty: [00:11:43.55] An image of creations, huh? All right. So here’s what’s interesting. So they were held by their faith and looking at the bronze serpent, right?
Penny: [00:11:53.75] That’s right.
Beatty: [00:11:55.96] So now we have and this is what I want to show you, this is what’s really fascinating, with the exception of casting out demons, every single category of miracle Jesus did had already been done by men in the Old Testament. So we see that people were killed by Jesus, but yet in the Old Testament, we see that people were healed there as well. Let’s look now at the dead raised. Go with me to Luke’s seven versus 11 through 15.
Penny: [00:12:27.84] Ok, let’s see. All right, Luke, seven 11 through 15 says soon afterward, Jesus went to a town called Nain and his disciples and a large crowd went along with him. As he approached the town gate. A dead person was being carried out. The only son of his mother and she was a widow and a large crowd from the town was with her. When the Lord saw her, his heart went out to her and he said, Don’t cry. Then he went up and touched the beer where they were carrying him and the bears stood still. He said, young man, I say to you, get up. The dead man sat up and begin to talk and Jesus gave him back to his mother.
Beatty: [00:13:19.61] So how was the debt raised?
Penny: [00:13:23.13] By Jesus just speaking to him, OK,
Beatty: [00:13:26.22] Now let’s look at a comparison, second, kings for 32 through thirty five.
Penny: [00:13:34.73] Ok, second Kings’. For. 30 to 35. OK, that reads, When Aplysia reached the house, there was the boy lying dead on his couch. He went in, shut the door, and on the two of them sorry, shut the door on the two of them and prayed to the Lord. Then he got on the bed and lay on the boy. Mouth to mouth, eyes to eyes, hands to hands. As he stretched himself on him, the boy’s body grew warm. Eliza turned away and walked back and forth in the room and then. And then got on the bed and stretched out on him once more. The boy sneezed seven times and opened his eyes.
Beatty: [00:14:23.94] So how was the dad raised here?
Penny: [00:14:28.63] Well, it was an act of. I hate to say a ritual, but it was just a process of things, several things that Alicia had to physically do to touch him, and then things like he got up and prayed some more and then he touched him again. And it was very specific. OK.
Beatty: [00:14:48.94] All right. Would you say that it was had anything to do with religious faith? Or let me ask you this, why do you think Alicia had faith, which is the conviction of things not seen, right?
Penny: [00:15:03.39] Yes. Yes.
Beatty: [00:15:05.25] Do you think he had faith that the Lord was going to raise the boy from the dead?
Penny: [00:15:09.81] Yes.
Beatty: [00:15:10.63] Ok, so here we see, obviously. So we know that the power to raise from the dead, the power to heal comes from the Lord. But notice in both of these examples. Of healing the sick and raising the dead man by faith did the same thing Jesus did. So what Jesus did was not something that had never been done before. I don’t want to say he was copying, but he was definitely doing the same types of miracles we see being done by man. Watch this. Let’s look at another one. Let’s look at lepers. Cleansed Lutfi versus 12 through 13.
Penny: [00:15:51.02] Ok. All right, Luke Luke, five versus 12 through 13 says while Jesus was in one of the towns, a man came along who was covered with leprosy. When he saw Jesus, he felt with his face to the ground and begged him, Lord, if you are willing, you can make me clean. Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. I am willing, he said, be clean. And immediately the leprosy left him.
Beatty: [00:16:21.91] So how was the leper cleansed
Penny: [00:16:25.18] By Jesus touching him?
Beatty: [00:16:26.86] Ok, so now let’s turn to Second Kings, five verses one through 14. And I’m going to read this quote. It’s a long passage and I’m just going to truncate it, OK? Says now, Nayman was commander of the army of the king of Arem, he was a valiant soldier, but he had leprosy and had taken captive a young girl from Israel. She said to her mistress, If only my master would see the prophet who is in Somalia, he would cure him of his leprosy. So Nayman went with his horses and chariots and stopped at the door of Elisha’s house. Elijah sent a messenger to him to say, Go wash yourself seven times in the Jordan and your flesh will be restored and you will be cleansed. So he went down and dipped himself in the Jordan seven times as the man of God had told him, and his flesh was restored and became clean like that of a young boy. So let me ask you, how is the leprechaun’s here, hmm? Washing, washing, OK, the man acted on the word of God, right? Yeah. OK, let’s now look at another type of category, miracle weather being controlled. OK, so turn to mark for 36 through thirty nine. So this is authority over weather.
Penny: [00:17:51.71] Ok, Mark, four thirty six, three thirty nine Marines leaving the crowd behind. They took him along just as he was in the boat. There were also other boats with him. A furious squall came up and the waves broke over the boat so that it was nearly swamped. Jesus was in the stern, sleeping on a cushion. The disciples woke him and said to him, Teacher, don’t you care if we drown? He got up, rebuked the wind and said to the waves, quiet. They still. Then the wind died down and it was completely calm.
Beatty: [00:18:32.30] So who control the weather?
Penny: [00:18:34.20] Jesus. All right.
Beatty: [00:18:36.23] Go to James five 17 through 18. OK, and this is talking about an Old Testament prophet, but it summarizes it. So it’s easier here than going back into the Old Testament, the Old Testament prophet named Elijah,
Penny: [00:18:51.74] 17 to 18. OK, Elijah was a human being even as we are. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. Again, he prayed and the heavens gave rain and the earth produced its crops.
Beatty: [00:19:09.86] So who controlled the weather then, Elijah? Yeah, same thing Jesus did. Mm hmm. But Elijah is not God.
Penny: [00:19:18.46] That’s right.
Beatty: [00:19:19.52] So let’s look at laws of physics. Go to Matthew. Fourteen versus twenty three or twenty seven. We’re going to see laws of physics being violated.
Penny: [00:19:33.18] Matthew, 14,
Beatty: [00:19:35.40] 23 through twenty seven,
Penny: [00:19:37.03] Ok, after he had dismissed them, he went up on a mountainside by himself to pray. Later that night he was there alone and the boat was already a considerable distance from land, buffeted by the waves because the wind was against it. Shortly before dawn, Jesus went out to them walking on the water or the lake. When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. It’s a ghost, they said, and they cried out in fear. But Jesus immediately said to them, Take courage. It is. I do not be afraid.
Beatty: [00:20:12.60] So when Jesus walked on the water, did that violate the laws of physics?
Penny: [00:20:18.57] Absolutely.
Beatty: [00:20:20.75] All right, we sometimes say, well, that’s God, but let’s look at a companion comparison passage. Second, Kings, six versus four through seven. And the back story on this is Alicia is going going out with a group and they’re going to start cutting some trees and things and I’ll let you pick up now versus four through seven.
Penny: [00:20:45.57] I love this story. OK, and he went with them. They went to the Jordan and then began to cut down trees as one of them was cutting down a tree. The iron ax head fell into the water. Oh, no, my Lord. He cried out. It was borrowed. The man of God asked, where did it fall? When he showed him the place, Elijah cut a stick and threw it in the water and made the iron float. Lift it out, he said. Then the man reached out his hand and took it home
Beatty: [00:21:22.08] When the ax had floated. Did it violate the laws of physics?
Penny: [00:21:25.86] Absolutely.
Beatty: [00:21:27.27] Was Elicia God or just a man? Just a man. Oh, so just a man does the same types of miracles that Jesus was doing. Let’s look at one more. Let’s look at acts of creation, because acts of creation is definitely supernatural for sure. So let’s look at nine verses. Twelve through seventeen.
Penny: [00:21:52.54] Ok, Luke, nine, 12 through 17 says late in the afternoon the 12 came to him and said, send the crowd away so that they can go to the surrounding villages and countryside and find food and lodging because we are in a remote, remote place here. Jesus replied, You give them something to eat. They answered, We have only five loaves of bread and two fish unless we go buy food for all of this crowd. About five thousand men were there. But he said to his disciples, Jesus speaking, have them sit down in groups of about 50, each of the disciples did so and everyone sat down taking the five loaves and the two fish and looking up to heaven. Jesus gave thanks and broke them. Then he gave them to the disciples to distribute to the people. They all eight and were satisfied and the disciples picked up 12 basket fulls of broken pieces that were left over.
Beatty: [00:22:56.30] Wow. So was this an act of creation?
Penny: [00:23:00.65] Yes.
Beatty: [00:23:02.00] How did it happen?
Penny: [00:23:06.88] Hmm. Jesus just spoke. Yeah, he gave thanks to the father, so it was an act of of worship or prayer or giving thanks in his words, and then it just was created. Yeah.
Beatty: [00:23:22.06] Let’s look at a comparison. No second kings for one through seven.
Penny: [00:23:30.81] Ok, second kings for one three seven, the wife of a man from the company of the prophets cried out to Elisha, your servant, my husband is dead and you know that he revered the Lord. But now his creditor is coming to take my two boys as his slaves. Elijah replied to her, How can I help you? Tell me what? Tell me what you have in your house. Your servant has nothing here at all, she said, except a small jar of olive oil. Elijah said, Go around and ask all of your neighbors for empty jars. Do not ask for just a few, then go inside and shut the door behind you and your sons. Pour oil into all the jars and as each one is filled, put it to the side. She left him and shut the door behind her and her sons. They brought the jars to her and she kept pouring. When all the jars were full, she said to her son, Bring me another jar. But they replied, There is not a jar left. Then the oil stopped flowing. She went and told the man of God and he said, go sell the oil and pay your debts, you and your sons can live on what is left. Hmm. Wow.
Beatty: [00:24:46.15] So was that an act of creation?
Penny: [00:24:48.52] Yes.
Beatty: [00:24:49.90] How did it happen?
Penny: [00:24:53.56] Well, Alicia told her what to do. Sort of the word of the Lord is kind of how I see it, and she obeyed. Yeah.
Beatty: [00:25:03.07] So here’s the pattern. OK. And every single one of these different categories of miracles. Jesus does the same category that men and women in the Old Testament did. Keep in mind, it was the woman’s faith, appalling, boiling, pouring the oil that caused it to multiply, that faith was obviously leveraged through Alicia’s word of the Lord. We say the same thing with Neyman. It was his faith of dipping into the other Jordan that caused him to be healed of leprosy. And so what’s interesting is. These miracles in the Old Testament are no different categorically than the miracles that Jesus did in the New Testament. Would you agree?
Penny: [00:25:55.94] Yes, I would. Yeah.
Beatty: [00:25:57.80] So here’s the big question. If man by faith did the same types of miracles in the Old Testament as Jesus did in the New Testament. Then how did Jesus do his miracles in his position as God? Or in his position as a man operating in faith. Hmm.
Penny: [00:26:23.54] It’s a very deep question, yes.
Beatty: [00:26:27.44] And as we ponder that, also go back to last session where Jesus says your faith has healed you, your faith has made you well. Where it says that they simply touched his garment and they were Hild. Jesus, the Bible is clear. Jesus didn’t do it. Jesus is clear, he didn’t do it. He said their faith did. So if their faith did the same thing that he did, then does that mean that he’s doing his works? Differently. As God himself in his own power. Or would that indicate that he’s doing his works in his position as fully man? Walking in faith.
Penny: [00:27:13.82] Uh. Huh?
Beatty: [00:27:20.08] What do you think?
Penny: [00:27:23.51] I still feel drawn to my original thought of it could be a little bit of both.
Beatty: [00:27:29.87] Ok, so you’re right, there is some element there. We’re going to get closer into that. But so let me so let’s talk on primary versus secondary. OK, what is the primary thrust of how Jesus did his work? As God himself. Or as man.
Penny: [00:27:55.43] And as man, because he was sent to the earth as a man, yeah.
Beatty: [00:28:02.68] We attribute so often, well, Jesus to that because he’s God. But yet we’re going to find in just a moment that that is unscriptural. Oh, well, we’re going to find is what we’ve already seen, the pattern of everything Jesus did, with the exception of we never see anything of casting out demons, though they’re there. Alliterate it or inferred when Jesus says to the to the Jews, you know, when your signs cast out demons. How do they do it? OK, so we know that demons were being cast out, but Jesus cast them with greater authority. But what we see is the same types of stuff Jesus did had already been done in the Old Testament, albeit not to the same degree of quantity and consistency, but we see the same pattern. So we can’t simply say Jesus did everything as God. I can’t do any of it. And especially when we say Jesus continues to rebuke his disciples, disciples for. Oh, you have little faith, yeah. OK, so let’s look at. A little bit deeper of what’s going on, by the way, is this holding interest so far?
Penny: [00:29:23.99] Yeah, absolutely. And I was just thinking, too, through all of the miracle stories in the Bible, everything that, you know, that has a supernatural element, it’s let’s say it’s a blind person. If I recall, Jesus never healed the exact same way for every single blind person. So it’s like the healing. Sometimes it might be for the same disease or whatever, but in the Bible, it’s never done the same way,
Beatty: [00:29:55.58] If that makes sense. It does. I mean, I was listening to someone else speak on that same topic and they made a great comment. I think it’s probably accurate that we don’t know the ultimate reason. But it’s not a ritual. Yeah, you know, if Jesus did the identical thing for every dead person and something different for every blind person, then we would think that the way he did it is what it is. So it’s the ritual of how he did it. And I think Jesus was simply telling us that’s not it at all. In fact, I remember I was out praying for someone. They had bad knees and someone five feet away, their knees were healed. I didn’t even pray for them. I was talking to another guy and he was saying, hey, when you go pray for people, just try try this. He said, it’s the life in you. You know, it’s it’s what’s in you. It’s it’s your faith and the life of Christ that’s in you that’s doing the healing. Stop what you say. So just, you know, don’t even don’t even say anything. Just touch them. And you’ll see that a lot of times they they get killed. So I think you’re right, we see that he does something different every time. I’m probably of the opinion that so that we don’t believe that it’s a ritualistic process, but let’s let’s look at this real quick. This is interesting. OK, in the hierarchy of the Trinity, the Godhead, OK, you have Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Well. Who has the greatest power and authority?
Penny: [00:31:34.88] Hmmm, I feel like this is a trick question, but I’m going to say it’s the father
Beatty: [00:31:40.46] Is the father and why would you say is the father?
Penny: [00:31:44.15] Because. He’s the one that the other two stem from.
Beatty: [00:31:49.34] Ok, all right, good. And then if the father has the greater power and authority, who would have second greatest power and authority, huh?
Penny: [00:32:04.01] Yeah. Also a trick question,
Beatty: [00:32:07.41] By the way. These are not trick questions. These are all very scripturally focused.
Penny: [00:32:12.73] Um. I’m torn because I’m thinking about the book of John, I think is the book of John, where he says that basically Jesus was in the beginning, he was there from the beginning, just like the father was. So that means if Jesus was there in the beginning, just like the father was and so was the spirit, according to Genesis, the spirit of God hovered over the earth. So if they were all there at the same time. It would be hard for me to pick a second almost equal.
Beatty: [00:32:54.51] All right, so let’s let me clarify something, because I know exactly where you’re struggling. Who is more important? You or your husband, Brian, or do you each have equal value,
Penny: [00:33:12.06] Will each have equal value?
Beatty: [00:33:13.68] All right, who has the greater role of leadership leadership in your family? Brian, and why is that?
Penny: [00:33:23.23] Because it’s God’s role for him to have that position.
Beatty: [00:33:27.93] Ok, so leadership, the father, the husband has the leadership covering and role and responsibility for the family. So think in terms of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. In a leadership hierarchy as opposed to a value or importance hierarchy, because that’s really what I’m trying to get to, just as you and Brian have equal value in the leadership hierarchy, one is greater than the other. That’s the question I’m asking in the hierarchy of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. If Father has the greatest of the leadership, I call it the power and authority, then who would be second in that line up? Jesus, and then who would be third Holy Spirit. OK, and is there any passages that you can think of that would support that?
Penny: [00:34:25.86] There’s not.
Beatty: [00:34:26.98] Ok, let me share, because this is important, especially as we look at what we’re about to go into. Jesus says the father sent me and I only speak the words my father tells me to speak. So the one who sends and the one who directs what is speak. Has a greater authority over the one that he sent, would you agree with that? Yes. OK, so right there, Jesus is making very clear that I’m acting at my father’s direction and therefore I am under my father’s authority. Then Jesus later says about the Holy Spirit, he says, If I go, I will send him to you. And whatever he hears, he will speak. So we had the same process. If Jesus sends the Holy Spirit and directs the Holy Spirit, what to speak, then who has the greater authority? Jesus or the Holy Spirit?
Penny: [00:35:28.51] Jesus.
Beatty: [00:35:29.24] Ok, now there’s another question that’s also real interesting. It’s not as clear in scripture, but it’s fairly clearly inferred. When the Lord does a miracle, whether it’s an act of creation from the creation of the world and the universe, or whether it’s a miracle or an act of creation, that we say in the Old Testament, the New Testament, which part of the Trinity do we usually ascribe the working of that miracle to working out of that creation in terms of the actual doing of it, the father, the Son or the Holy Spirit?
Penny: [00:36:13.46] The the Son.
Beatty: [00:36:16.16] Ok, so I would I think it’s more of the Holy Spirit. It seems like the Son the son has all the authority and heaven on earth, but the Holy Spirit is one that was brooding over the Earth at the time, is formless and void. And we’re going to see in just a moment that there’s power that’s anointed through the Holy Spirit. So I want you to keep in mind there’s this leadership structure, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Father sends the Son, Son sends the Holy Spirit, and then we want to look at the source of the power or not the source of the power. But let’s say the the application of the power. You know, what part of the trinity is actually applying the power to do something. So with that, let’s look at what the Bible says about Jesus and the Holy Spirit, because really this is all about Jesus versus you know what? Faith like Jesus, did Jesus operate in faith or did Jesus operate as son as God, son of God, part of the Trinity when he did his work? So let’s turn and you can do these in the E.S.P. Now, let’s turn to Luke for. Versus 16 through 19.
Penny: [00:37:36.40] Ok. All right, Luke, for 16 through 19 says and he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and as was his custom, he went to the synagogue on the Sabbath day and he stood up to read. And the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him, he unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written. The spirit of the Lord is upon me because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed and to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.
Beatty: [00:38:25.79] So do you think this passage in Isaiah’s referencing Jesus as the Messiah?
Penny: [00:38:32.97] I do,
Beatty: [00:38:33.97] Yeah, everything is mentioned is what Jesus did, and those were the signs of the Messiah, right?
Penny: [00:38:40.59] Yes.
Beatty: [00:38:41.73] So does it say that the Messiah will act in his own power? Is God or does it say that he will act in the anointed power of the Holy Spirit?
Penny: [00:38:51.21] Yes. Anointed Power of the Holy Spirit.
Beatty: [00:38:54.74] Yes, as the spirit of the Lord is upon me, he has anointed me. So now now that we say that the beginning prophecy says that this messiah. It’s going to have the spirit of the Lord anointing him to do all these things. Now let’s look at it being played out. Let’s go to Matthew three 16. OK.
Penny: [00:39:26.78] All right, Matthew, three. Verse 16 says, And when Jesus was baptized, immediately, he went up from the water and behold the heavens were opened to him and he saw the spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him.
Beatty: [00:39:47.21] Ok, so now we see the fulfillment that now the spirit at the beginning of Jesus’s ministry. Clearly throughout scripture and in multiple the gospels, it clearly says that the spirit came down and rested or anointed on Jesus. OK, so we see this application of the spirit. Even though Jesus is fully God, the question is why now let’s look over at Luke for and we’re going to reverse this one and 14 a just the first part of first 14,
Penny: [00:40:28.25] Luke, chapter four, verse one and Jesus follow. The Holy Spirit returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness.
Beatty: [00:40:40.49] And then once season comes out from the wilderness, from being tempted by Satan, verse 14 A
Penny: [00:40:46.10] And Jesus returned and the power of the spirit.
Beatty: [00:40:50.45] All right. So now we see again that Jesus entered the wilderness, for this is right after his baptism full of the Holy Spirit. And when it comes out, Scripture is very clear to tell us that he returned in the power of the spirit. Why does God really want to tell us so much that he was anointed by the spirit, the spirit came upon him, he entered full of the Holy Spirit, and he acted in the power of the spirit. Let’s look at one another passage. Let’s go to Loopt, five for 17.
Penny: [00:41:26.36] Ok, Luke, five, verse 17 says on one of those days, he was teaching Pharisees and teachers of the law were sitting there who had come from every village of Galilee and Judea and from Jerusalem, and the power of the Lord was with him to heal.
Beatty: [00:41:44.27] Oh, so his own power as God of the Trinity is what caused the healing? Is that what it says?
Penny: [00:41:52.34] Yes. No, sorry. It says that it was the power of the Holy
Beatty: [00:41:59.48] Spirit, the oh, the spirit of the Lord. So if Jesus healed so back to thinking that maybe Jesus heal by his own power as God, if that was the case, why would this say that he healed by the power of the Lord, meaning the spirit. That was upon him.
Penny: [00:42:22.20] Because I feel like he wants us to recognize the role that the Holy Spirit needs to have in our lives.
Beatty: [00:42:29.52] Yes, and I totally agree. And if Jesus is modeling how our lives should be, then wouldn’t it make sense that he would do things the way that he wanted us to do them? In other words, if he was modeling for us. He would need the power of the Holy Spirit if he was doing it in his power is God, he doesn’t need the Holy Spirit because in the hierarchy of authority, he’s above the spirit. Yeah, why would he use the spirit? So let’s look at another passage. So this is the crux of this is leading up to this passage, exten 38.
Penny: [00:43:16.61] Ok, x10. Verse thirty eight says. How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and he went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil for God was with him.
Beatty: [00:43:37.94] So according to this passage, where does it appear? Jesus has power to perform miracles came from from the father, from himself or from the Holy Spirit.
Penny: [00:43:50.36] Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit. Yeah.
Beatty: [00:43:53.75] So here’s kind of the interesting dilemma. Dilemma. OK. If Jesus healed by his own power is God. And Jesus has greater authority than the Holy Spirit. Then why would he need the Holy Spirit’s power to rest upon him and heal people?
Penny: [00:44:14.89] Uh.
Beatty: [00:44:17.66] He wouldn’t, Woody.
Penny: [00:44:19.85] That’s correct,
Beatty: [00:44:21.14] But. If he acted in his position as man and noticed the wording, this is real important, it doesn’t say in 10 38, does not say God anointed Jesus son of God. It doesn’t say God anointed Jesus the Christ. It says God anointed Jesus of Nazareth, that is a designation of man of his humanity, not if his deity. Do you see what I’m saying on that? Absolutely. Yes. OK, so even even Jesus, he always calls himself the son of man. Why? If he’s really the son of God, why does he keep calling himself the son of man? I believe because. He is doing everything he does on Earth. And the position of man not in the position of God, he’s a son of man, he is frail as man is, he gets hungry, he gets tired, he bleeds, he gets worn out. And here we see it clear that. God anointed Jesus of Nazareth the man, and so we start to see that the things that Jesus did. Were performed by the power of the Holy Spirit. Not by his own power as. The Trinity. And if he was going to do it by his own power, he would not need the Holy Spirit because he he’s in greater authority than the Holy Spirit or something else. Can you think of any passage where the Bible says that Jesus did his mighty words through his own power as God himself? Does anything come to mind that indicates for you remember the Bible saying Jesus did these things as God?
Penny: [00:46:23.87] No, the only thing that comes to mind says the opposite. Yeah. That he does things as his father tells him, what to do.
Beatty: [00:46:34.40] Exactly. And so why hitting back on this one last time as more of a rhetorical question? Why would we think that Jesus did his miraculous works by his own power when No. One, the Bible is silent about it? And number two, the Bible clearly states he did them through the Holy Spirit.
Penny: [00:46:59.20] Ok, well,
Beatty: [00:47:01.12] The other thing but I think this is where I think this is where it’s coming from, accounting for the dilemma you’ve been having. And me, too. OK, but as a matter separating what’s actually going on, what I believe scripture showing us is that Jesus acted in his position as man walking by faith to produce and do the miracles that he did. But that faith is actually tied to his authority and his position is God to enact those miracles. So we what we have is we have the authority to do something and we have the appropriation of power to actually do it. Does that make sense? It does, yeah. OK, so we’ll we’re going to talk about this later. But Jesus is fully God has the authority. This is why the demons came to him and said, what do you what do we have to do with you, son of God, we know who you are. Are you going to torment us before the time? Please don’t do that. Jesus has full authority because he says full authority has been given to me. But Paul also lets us know very clearly that the one who gave him that authority is accepted from that.
Beatty: [00:48:09.41] And in other words, Jesus doesn’t have authority over the father. OK, but Jesus has full authority in heaven. Earth has been granted to me. So Jesus operates in that full authority, but he operates as man by faith to appropriate that authority and the power. To perform that authority and that power that’s being appropriated is a Holy Spirit, it’s appropriated by faith. That’s why we see identical miracles throughout the Old Testament that Jesus did in the New Testament, because this man acting by faith, just as Jesus did, as the Jesus of Nazareth, appropriating the authority that they had and the power of the Holy Spirit to perform this kind of deep. But once we start to understand that then allows us to walk more boldly by faith. Because now we start to understand what we’re doing. OK, so here’s some big takeaways from all of this, OK? Number one, Jesus was fully God and fully man. And number two, though he was fully God, he lived and acted as fully man. In fact, turn real quickly in NIV. Philippians two versus five through seven.
Penny: [00:49:34.25] Ok. All to. And we’re reading from the Navy. Uh huh? Verse five through seven says, in your relationship with one another, have the same mindset as Christ, Jesus, heal being and very nature. God did not consider equality with God, something to be used to his own advantage. Rather, he made himself himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant being made in human likeness.
Beatty: [00:50:10.57] So we read this all the time. We understand that he acted as man. He came as a man. He had the frailties of man. But yet. Without really looking at the scripture, we start to just make the assumption, well, he did all of his miracles as God, but yet what this is saying that he did not act as God to his own advantage, meaning he could have. Acted in position of the Godhead in everything he did, but he instead, it says instead, he made himself nothing and acted as man. So we even see that in Philippians referencing the same pattern that we’re seeing there. The other thing that we the big takeaway out of this is because he acted as man, the miracles he did. He did as a man, not as God. And that’s why the Bible keeps telling us, I believe, that he did his works by the power of the Holy Spirit. That’s also why I believe he keeps rebuking his disciples for their lack of faith. Because as man. He expected them to do as he did. Why are you waking me up to calm the storm? Where’s your faith? Storm becalmed, Peter walking on the water, you have little faith, why did you doubt you could have continued to walk just as I did, casting out the demons of epilepsy? You have little faith.
Beatty: [00:51:47.22] How long do I have to put up with you and your tiny faith? Well, or, you know, when he saw the Fitri, you of little faith have faith in God. You can even say to this mountain, be taken up and cast in the sea and whatever you say and believe without doubting will happen. There’s this pattern that Jesus is acting as man. Not in his advantage, his God, and so he could not expect his disciples to do what he did if he did them as God. He could not have rebuked his disciples for not doing what he did if he did it as God, but he could rebuke them if he did it in the same likeness as they were modeling for them and for us. What is possible when a man acts in faith? So. If Jesus did, miracles has a man walking in faith. Then that means he modeled what we can do as man, this is where faith comes in, right?
Penny: [00:53:02.49] That’s right.
Beatty: [00:53:03.13] Yeah, this is why he claimed your faith has made you. Well, not I made you. Well, yeah. Again, this doesn’t remove Christ, the deity of Christ. We’re going to talk about that some later sessions. But let me give a personal story and then we’ll wrap up. About five years ago, I had as of five years ago, I had never prayed for anyone and saw them healed consistently. I’m sure I probably prayed for someone and they were kind of healed. What I would call natural healing. You know, over time, they kind of got better. But I don’t recall a single time where I would pray for someone and whatever they were sick or ailing of or in pain of or whatever would instantly be healed. And at my church, which is a great Bible believing church, they preach the word of God solidly. And I use the word in quotes accurately, accurately to a good, solid interpretation. But no one is perfectly accurate. We all miss it. So I’m not being critical on them, but as accurately as a good, solid conservative church can teach. But what’s interesting is even though they believe in the supernatural working of God, even though they believe in walking by faith, they really don’t believe the appropriation of what that faith does. They take more of the intellectual approach. God is sovereign, God is in control.
Beatty: [00:54:36.36] And therefore everything that happens is God’s will, because God is sovereign. He can do anything and he would not do anything that wasn’t his will. OK, and so when they pray for people, they use what I call a cop out. I don’t mean it to be critical, but it’s it takes that same formula. Lord, please heal this person if it’s your will. And in that way, if they don’t get heal. Well, it wasn’t a lack of faith. It wasn’t God’s will. Yeah. Does that make sense now? Yes. OK, so that’s kind of where I grew up. That’s what I applied. That’s what I believed. And then something happened and I started recognize that’s probably wrong, so I started to do a deep study in the Bible, you can tell I kind of do deep studies for fun. And and I came to the very clear conclusion. We’ll talk about this on a later session while later down the road. But the Bible is very clear that it is God’s will that we should be healed. And in fact, it even says that the stripes that were to be applied to the Messiah were for our healing. That’s right. Isaiah says, looking forward by his stripes, you are healed. And Peter, looking backward, says by his stripes, you were healed. And as I started to look at that, I started to believe the truth and this is the key, we’re going to touch on this in the next couple of sessions.
Beatty: [00:56:05.31] What faith really is, is that perspective of God a truth? What is true, not what is reality. We did a session a while back called Heaven First or Second. And and in that whole whole thing, we talked about things happen in the spiritual room before they happened in the natural realm. This is what Jesus says. I only do the things I see my father doing, which means they were done first in the spiritual world before Jesus did them. And that in the natural so that we see this pattern. And as I started to understand what God’s will was, understand that healing had already been accomplished, then I was able to start praying for people differently. And the thing that changed was this thing called faith. Well, and as I started to pray for people now, about 80 percent of everyone I pray for get instantly healed. When before it was zero and my church doesn’t believe it, they think it’s something quackery, they believe, you know, well, you’re just praying for the people at the time that it was the Lord’s will to kill them. No, I think it was the Lord’s will a long time ago. No one acted in faith. OK, does that make sense?
Penny: [00:57:20.01] Absolutely.
Beatty: [00:57:21.66] So that’s the only thing that changed was the faith in which I act. Yeah. And that’s why this is such a fun and exciting topic, because we can all act in faith and walk in faith once we understand what it is, how we get it and how we apply it. So hopefully this was a really cool session to help us understand what Jesus did is what we can do now. Let’s learn how we can do it.
Penny: [00:57:49.05] Ok, I thought it was amazing. Beatty thank you so much. I was just sitting here thinking while you were sharing that story. But you’re exactly right. Every person in scripture, I mean, if we want to talk about well, is it biblically based? Well, does the Bible say so? Well, if you read the Bible, it actually does say that every person there’s not one time where Jesus is mentioned of him trying to perform a healing that the person was not healed. Every instance of Jesus healing someone every time the person is healed.
Beatty: [00:58:25.39] Yes. And we see this is one of the things that really hit me. Jesus is the exact impression of God. Jesus has God himself, Jesus is fully God and fully displaying God’s will on Earth.
Penny: [00:58:43.39] That’s right.
Beatty: [00:58:44.38] That’s right. No one who came to Jesus for healing. Were ever denied?
Penny: [00:58:51.07] That’s right, because it’s God’s will forever be healed.
Beatty: [00:58:55.60] And when I understood that, I understood that when you say, Lord, please heal this person, if it be your will, that is someone who is not praying in faith because they have no idea that it’s actually God’s will.
Penny: [00:59:09.16] That’s right. Yeah, you’re absolutely right.
Beatty: [00:59:12.55] So real quickly, as we wrap up, what are your big takeaways from this? Anything stand out?
Penny: [00:59:19.63] I think the biggest thing for me was that, quite frankly, I’ve just never really given a lot of thought to the hierarchy of God, the Father, Jesus, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I absolutely believe in all three. The Holy Spirit and I are very close to Jesus and I are very close and the Father and I are close to and they’re all completely separate and unique in their own way, yet they’re all one. But I’ve never really given a lot of thought to the hierarchy. So that kind of stood out a little bit to me and I thought that was pretty cool.
Beatty: [00:59:55.45] Cool. That hierarchy is going to apply a lot in the next sessions as we get into as we talk about authority. And I can give you the cliff note version real quick. Faith is in the authority that you hold me. Once you understand authority in that chain of command of authority, then you can operate in greater faith because faith comes from authority. The centurion says I, too, am a man under authority to give the word and it will be done. OK, and Jesus says, I’ve never seen such great faith in all of Israel than this gentile man because he understood authority, so that’s why that’s so important. All right. I think it’s time to wrap up.
Penny: [01:00:39.26] It is. Well, thank you so much, everyone, for listening. And Beatty, thank you so much again for just putting all the time and effort into this study. And I’m just presenting the words so wonderfully to all of our listeners. And I know Beatty is probably going to add this on a little bit more detail, but if you haven’t subscribed yet, please do so. Also share share the podcast with a friend. If you have a friend that you feel like could benefit from this, we would love for you to just pass it along. But other than that, we look forward to meeting again with you all on our next call and Beatty if you don’t have anything further, I think that wraps us up for today.
Beatty: [01:01:16.67] Only thank for that. I would say is listen to this again. If you listen to it again, you will pick up so much more than you that you missed because the second time through, you always start to catch the nuances that are the most important parts of really understanding it. So listen to it again. I promise you, you won’t be sorry.
Penny: [01:01:38.36] Yes, I agree. Well, thank you so much. And everyone, we will be chatting with you again soon.